Update: Comments have been turned off for this post due to too much back and forth that has become personal towards me and other commenters. If anyone has constructive suggestions about how to improve the site, feel free to use the email address on the upper-right hand side, or start your own weblog for the neighborhood. If you just want attention, move along.
I heard about this yesterday morning, but didn't want to post anything until I knew something for sure. Two men were shot and killed at about 4 AM on Sunday morning. Apparently, they had just left a bar on 39th Street and 5th (Hmmmm, I wonder which one?), and an argument with other bar-goers turned fatal. One of the men killed was only 18; the other was 21. According to one police officer in the park, there is speculation that this was also gang related. Not a huge leap there.
That cool, comfortable sleeping weather means open windows, so many Sunset residents heard helicopters around the area from 5 AM to almost 6 AM on Sunday. Usually it's due to traffic or accidents on the BQE, but early Sunday is a strange time for that.
In both this shooting and the other shooting (just three weeks ago?), the men died from bullet wounds to the head and neck. Shoot to kill - not warn seems to be the trend here.
As of this morning, the shooters are yet to be apprehended. Hopefully the detectives and officers can make quick work of the shooters as they did with the park murders.
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17 comments:
Tacos 2004/Viva Mexico is at it, again. Funny thing is, their liquor license says they're supposed to close at 3:30 a.m. Hmm... And, their license was recently renewed, in spite of the murder of another patron last year in front of the place.
Question: Who's watching the NYS Liquor Authority?
Heard it was 3 men shot, 2 dead and 1 in critical condition at Lutheran Mediacal.
Don't you think it's time for some cameras on 5th between 39th and 41st, at least?
Who will be watching the cameras??? Or better yet, who will pay for it?
Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do except complain to the police and report what ever we see and hear when ever possible.
The cops are patrolling the park like crazy these days. I have to watch the cars more carefully than when I am on the street! It is ridiculous.
Anonymous, if it was as easy as getting a camera, then I nominate you to buy one and you can be our neighborhood watch person for those blocks.
One of my neighbors told me the fight started at one of the all night bakeries bet 40th and 41st on 5th.
But that Tacos 2004 is pretty bad too.
Vanessa-If you, a loved one or friend is ever harmed, I hope you don't ask to go to the video tape. There won't be any witnesses- human or electronic.
I've really had enough of the negative, sourceless speculation on here.
You don't say "there is speculation that this was also gang related. Not a huge leap there."-- when you have ABSOLUTELY NO idea. Gangs are a serious thing-- they are not the thing of childhood cops and robbers play and movies you have seen as reruns on TV.
If there was even so much as an actual allegation, that would be one thing, but even then you should have said "ALLEGEDLY," not thrown in a glib remark like you're on Dragnet or something.
I think you speculate in this fashion to play on people's fears and increase your readership while crossing your fingers for a sanitized community.
I challenge you to report ONLY on what you ACTUALLY know with no speculation, and to cite what you report. (Not holding my breath as you seem to rely a little too much on this type of baselessness for your prose.)
And I would like to request that you PLEASE STOP making these kind of gang- and race-tinged speculations immediately. By doing so I feel you embarrass the community and yourself: Shame on you.
Please go back and re-read the entire sentence. A police officer from the 72nd relayed that information. And since three weeks ago gave us a shooting that has been confirmed as gang-related, no, I don't think it's a huge leap. I don't see how it's tinged with race. The gangs with which I'm familiar (and yes, I actually am) are of all shades.
I have no motivation for "increasing my membership." I don't have advertising; I don't need you to visit.
Thank you for caring enough about the neighborhood to respond.
Anonymous @ 5:52:
Physician, heal thyself.
Your speculations about BVIB's motives are themselves baseless and can't possibly be substantiated by actual, concrete knowledge on your part.
@bestview: You've got to be kidding-- Yes, "relayed the information" that there was SPECULATION, your sentence reading: "According to one police officer in the park, there is *speculation* that this was also gang related." (my emphasis)
The confirmation you got was confirmation on SPECULATION, not on what actually happened. There is a difference between confirmation on SPECULATION confirmation on FACT. It's not clear from your post or your follow-up comment that you understand the difference. But, hey, "not a huge leap there," right?
You still show absolutely no confirmation that the shooting was gang-related. Do you think you owe it to your readership to cause some sort of sick intrigue around these two men's deaths? I think you ought to apologize to the families of these men, whose murder you-- and cops apparently-- know very little about.
I think I'll write a blogspot about folks who imagine themselves to have privilege move into Sunset Park, rejoice when drab Duane Reeds open to compete w/ local business, and then compel long-time residents to murder. I've got confirmation from a half cousin who used to be a security guard on "speculation" that GANGS of Sunset Park gentrifiers have blood on their hands. You wouldn't mind, then, if someone wrote that?
Again, I'd like to request that you stop doing this kind of speculation-mongering here. Would you please stop it? I'm sure there is plenty else you can write on these pages that you can actually confirm (again, as fact, not speculation).
If you think the post about Duane Reade was rejoicing, you need a reading lesson.
You can write about what you wish. It's a free country.
As others have told me, I'll stop feeding the troll(s). Any comments that aren't directly related to the material will not be posted.
Again, if you're so disturbed, change the channel.
Here are some facts directly related to the material:
4 young Hispanic men have been killed by gunshots to the head or neck in two separate incidents that occurred 20 days and approximately 1,000 feet apart.
That's pretty disturbing, no matter which way you look at it.
I was walking on 4th Ave to the 36th St subway stop and a police woman was going into businesses asking questions about the shooting and handing out crimestoppers materials. I stopped and chatted with her for a moment and totally regard a comment from a police officer as a reputable source, not speculation. Keep up the good work, BVIB.
@Nancy In that case you disagree with what Best View wrote, which was that it was speculation (her term), "confirmed" (the speculation itself, that is) by a cop. And FWIW I don't trust cops for anything-- they lie all time, especially in NYC.
I'm sorry, but if we can't be absolutely clear on what the difference is between speculation and fact, we're no different from these cretins in town halls across the country screaming their head off about things that frighten them.
If the state of Denial ever was to have a governor, it would be Anon 5:52. Funny thing is, that when BVIB started this blog, she had a somewhat similar attitude. A few years of SP living has opened her eyes a bit. I left SP because the constant gang related drug dealing ( the block below Sara Gonzales office is an open air drug market ) and occasional shootings ( bullets dug out of my next door ighbors brownstone walls ) prompted me to depart for greener pastures. It wasn't always like this. The 90's were a period of relative calm in SP. When the real economy began to tank in 2000, was when the resurgence of gangs happened. Now it's worse than it was in the 80's. One thing we can agree on,anon 5:52, the gangs are serious business, not the Sharks and Jets of West Side story. The cops are real nervous now over what looks like the beginning of a serious cycle of revenge killings. I understand your concern about adding fuel to the fire with speculation, but pulling the racist card is pretty damn weak.
@4:21 That's fine, but you're telling a very different story from what BVIB has written. If there is a gang problem, then, yes, let's get to the bottom of it. But we won't (I guarantee you, money on the table) get to the bottom of it by being speculative and preliminary about what the facts are. Let's wait until we get all the facts on this one.
FYI I have been in Sunset Park over 5 years now-- traversing all through the neighborhood regularly-- and the picture painted by BVIB over and over and over, though I have witnessed much shady stuff and been a crime victim here myself-- couldn't be more different than the one I've experienced so far. Then again I don't have "gangdar."
Anonymous(es) - have you even read most of what this blog puts up or do you just scan the violent news for Sunset? The person who runs this blog loves this neighborhood and seems to enjoy living here. I grew up here, and I plan on leaving before I have kids. I don't know who this person (or people) is, but most of the stuff here is very positive. I wish this site was around ten years ago.
Don't bother trying to prove there are no gangs. We got plenty but they are smarter now about showing their signs.
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